Stable OC and SSD

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by haibane, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. haibane
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    Hey guys !

    Tried to update to windows 8.1 yesterday but my PC went black and could not POST anymore after that.

    By removing the battery on the mobo and reseting to default ASUS standards (i got a P8Z77-V) i was able to boot again to windows 8.

    It seems that everytime i got a BIOS upgrade of the mobo or a windows reinstall (like the migration) my SSD (Crucial M4) vanishes into oblivion and my whole PC can't even POST.

    I got an Intel 3570k on that P8Z77-V that i OC'ed (had some posts about it on the forum few months ago) to 4.2 ghz (from 3.4), which is stable when i play but everything goes to hell (especially the SSD) everytime something is changed in the mobo or if i wanna try to OC again.

    Anyone knows of any relationship Overclocking and the SSD could have and why it vanishes everytime i tamper with the OC ?

    I'm going to try to OC again tonight but i know it'll be a pain in the bum and that it'll take some amount of luck to be able to actually boot after the OC... (like last time i did the OC i had, like, 8 failed boots, then then 9th it worked without any change). I think i didn't change the RAM settings as well.

    I used offset last time, i've heard it's better than manual voltage as ur voltage and proc go down when it's idle but is it as stable as manual voltage ?

    What do you think could be the most probable cause for this mayhem whenever i try to OC ? Especially the SSD vanishing and coming back only when i restore default settings ?

    Also, does anyone know of stable settings for a P8Z77-V with a 3570k (or recommended) that i could try tonight ?

    I got a corsair 650W power supply (bronze or silver) if it helps.

    Also, if anyone knows of a lightweight program that can open mdmp files (other than the overkill visual studio) i'm a taker !

    Sorry bout the messy post too, can't structure my thoughts cleary this morning...

    TIA :bigeyes:
     
  2. EniGmA1987
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    Honestly it is probably a problem with your SSD as why it vanishes. Those Crucial drives had a ton of problems being compatible with Intel CPU's for the first few firmware versions. I would say try to update your drive firmware, but be sure the whole drive is backed up first since the firmware update might wipe your drive.


    The other possibility is that you are overclocking wrong. Intel has tied its bclk directly in to the AHCI controller of the southbridge so if you raise your base clock by more than a few MHz it will freak out the storage controller. You should never do any changes to the CPU speed besides from the multiplier, or possibly the bootstrap for the CPU. Some motherboards have strange issues with bootstrap though so I tend not to use it unless I have a locked CPU.
    it is unfortunate that AMD has followed suit and also tied its bclk in to the AHCI controller now too. If you go above 106MHz on the new AMD chipsets then your storage freaks out too. The old days were so much more fun when I could run a 50% overclock on the PCI-Express lanes and crank the bclk up anywhere I wanted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  3. haibane
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    Yeah i updated the firmware at some point and it really helped (i think it's 6 months old now) but, indeed, M4 drives are a pile of crap, i really need to get Samsung / Intel... Maybe it won't vanish this time tho (since it's upgraded).
     
  4. EniGmA1987
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    Samsung 840 series is on sale at Newegg for a few more hours. 120GB drive for $89. I was thinking about buying one but then realized I have way too many SSDs as is.
     
  5. PersonalRiot
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    1. Firmware updates.
    2. BIOS Update (In order to ensure compatibility with your SSD)
    3. Send an email to the SSD manufacturer customer support describing exactly the problem. They may have come across it before.

    The turbo on your CPU is 3.8 GHz so your overclock on the Intel is only 0.4 Ghz. If there drive is seemingly having issues with the overclock why not run your Intel at stock. Personally I wouldn't recommend overclocking high end Intel's CPU unless you need to squeeze out a few additional frames for large resolutions gaming (or multiple screens).

    CPU overclock is changing Voltage + Multiplier. Start stock (or just below) increase multiplier by a percentile then increase voltage until stable Prime(or software of choice). Don't go over 1.5V.
     
  6. haibane
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    Thanks for the infos, yeah OC is not really a must.

    For the SSD enigma it's newegg.com, they don't ship in Canada... a 500GB is for 309$ on amazon.com as well but when u eat the custom charges u're pretty much canceling ur cart...

    I'll look if there are any new updates for my bios & firmware, i update them pretty frequently :(
     
  7. EniGmA1987
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    Pretty sure Ivy and Haswell are not supposed to go over 1.425v for 24/7 voltages on air. Of course that is just personal preference if you want to go over the 24/7 limit. My current CPU is effed already so I dont care that I now run it at 1.47v all day long.
     
  8. Rbstr
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    My M4 has been a champ but I had issues with windows recognizing it as a lettered drive. It didn't really matter because I've got it set up as a cache and it shows up just find in the intel storage utility. :loopy:

    So...I never really looked into it in depth. But as far as I could tell it seemed to be an issue with the SATA controller/drive communication as it would occasionally not show up in the BIOS list or the RAID utility outside of windows.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  9. PersonalRiot
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    It really depends. If you want to processor to last as long as possible then you are already doing yourself a disservice by overclocking it. As I mentioned in a previous post, most stock Intel are more than capable of running high quality games/processing without overclocking (compared to AMD Vishera which are born for OCing). How far he wants to push his processor is really up to him but considering Sandy Bridges are still preforming extremely well when paired with an up to date GPU I doubt we will see a need to push them harder for at least a year or two. Then you might as well squeeze the last drops out of it and then rebuild when you burn out.

    Edit (Note not all games are like this but consider if the few extra frames are worth it):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  10. haibane
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    aye doesn't change much for sure...
     
  11. EniGmA1987
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    Higher CPU core speed has more effect on minimum FPS and the lag spikes you get in games rather than average or max FPS.
     
  12. PersonalRiot
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    Source?
     
  13. EniGmA1987
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    Well I will post some if you want when I get home but you can see it in all reviews that have even bothered to look at minimum FPS. It is also something I have seen personally across dozens of hardware systems I have overclocked and years of experience in it.

    minimum FPS is actually the main difference in gaming between Intel core processors and AMD FX processors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  14. PersonalRiot
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    Would love to see if it isn't too much trouble. Might influence my mATX build.
     
  15. haibane
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    Thx for all the infos. Anyone knows tho a lightweight program to open minidump files ?
     
  16. EniGmA1987
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  17. haibane
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    Hm in fact what i'm trying to open are total war rome 2 crash files, because those morons didn't make them in word readable format... but in .mdmp which is minidump but it seems diff than the windows minidump.

    Aaah I found something in windows SDK, the software crashdump exec. Finally i can read and see wtf is wrong.
     
  18. EniGmA1987
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    Sorry to keep hijacking your thread Haibane. But here are some benchmarks showing minimum FPS in relation to clock speeds.
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/11/06/amd-fx-8350-review/6
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/05/01/intel-core-i5-3570k-cpu-review/6
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/06/12/intel-core-i5-4670k-haswell-cpu-review/5
    These are in 1080p which is the most common gaming resolution. These benchmarks do not highlight some special case in entirely CPU bound scenarios because the GPU does need to do a good bit of work at 1080p and high settings.

    Skyrim:
    8350 overclock of 800MHz (20% OC) gives 22% minimum FPS gain, 8% average FPS increase.
    3570K overclock of 1400MHz (40% OC) gives 19% minimum FPS boost, 19% average FPS increase
    4670K overclock of 1200MHz (35% OC) gives 11% minimum FPS increase, 4% average FPS gain

    Shogun 2:
    8350 overclock of 800MHz (20% OC) gives 30% minimum FPS gain, 18% average FPS increase.
    3570K overclock of 1600MHz (47% OC) gives 29% minimum FPS boost, 27% average FPS increase
    4670K overclock of 1200MHz (35% OC) gives 11% minimum FPS increase, 9% average FPS gain

    ARMA 2:
    3570K overclock of 1600MHz (47% OC) gives about a 15% minimum FPS increase, 18% average FPS gain



    It is unfortunate that this site doesnt do some additional games for their tests. This was the only site I found while looking today that does any kind of minimum FPS testing. Here is another random post from a guy about a 400MHz overclock on his AMD processor in X Rebirth: http://steamcommunity.com/app/2870/discussions/0/648811852615200077/
    As you can see though, most tests show a bit better improvement in minimum FPS than average, although for the Intel processors I guess it isnt that much better gains on the minimum. The FX processors on the other hand show huge gains with very small overclocks, especially on minimum FPS.





    For Rome 2 I wouldn't really bother trying to figure out where you are unstable. I have heard for a couple people that the game is just terribly buggy so the crashing is most likely just bad code. Much like how Battlefield 4 has been and Battlefield 3 before it and many other games these days. Developers just dont care anymore about producing properly playable games.