Hello all! Let me begin by saying that I've built PCs before... but not recently, since i built my dream rig when i graduated highschool i basically stopped paying attention and have coasted ever since on the power of my current rig. However, i now find myself desirous of some serious upgrading, and since i just came into some money, i have decided to build a whole new one. However, my inattention has bit me in the posterior somewhat and i am abit lost in the current state of affairs. So anyone has any advice, brand suggestions, or knows for a good writeup on the current state the tech in general (or links to any of this stuff), i would appreciate it. If you have any suggestions for me in terms of actual specific items, i shant say no either! My spending limit is quite high on this, and i would sooner build something that will last quite a long time... i am particularly interested in Motherboards... but it seems like all the really high end stuff is full of problems... oh, and whos ahead between Nvidia and ATI at the moment? Many thanks!
Intel's new platform is supposed to launch at the beginning of June if you feel like waiting that long If you dont want to wait for the next gen: As for your question on motherboards, everyone has their own preference as well. Many really like Gigabyte and others really like ASUS. I have liked ASUS because their Sabertooth line is really nice and I can easily get ahold of their experienced overclock division customer support/tech support guys. If you go with ASRock then only look at their Extreme6 and upwards. MSI is an ok choice, but usually is not up there with the "big boys" in each generation (with a couple exceptions). So any of these would be good choices: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131821 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157344 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322 For a CPU, either the 3570k or the 3770k: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504 With a cooler for the CPU you can either get a good performing air cooler for fairly cheap that will serve you well. Or if you want to push the limits more on a bigger overclock then a closed loop water cooler is the way to go: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209054 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106189 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099&Tpk=Hyper 212 EVO Really, the air cooler for $35 will get you somewhere between 4.4-4.6GHz. The water cooler will get you between 4.5-4.8GHz probably. So its up to you what range you want to get into and the price you are willing to pay. You will also want at least 1 solid state drive in the new computer as they are far faster and dont die as much are regular hard drives. I am preferential to Samsung drives as they have proven to be the most reliable in the entire history of SSDs, and they are in the top of the performance market right now as well. I have used many solid state drives, from the very first generation all the way to the latest. Probably over 20 drives by now if I went back and counted. about 10 of which have been Samsung based drives. You will find opinions on SSDs vary greatly here in XoO with the tech people, everyone has their own preference. OS drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193 Game drive (up it to 256GB if you need to): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147192 Mass storage drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236343 AMD (ATI hasnt existed for many years since bought by AMD) and Nvidia have been really close to each other for a while now so whatever your preference is then go with that. I like how AMD is a bit more value for your money, but Nvidia's drivers just seem to work better overall so right now they are my preference. GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130824 You will also want to go with 16GB of RAM as it is really cheap and easy to do. I have always liked Mushkin RAM because they work very well, have the best customer support of any RAM company and it is an American company (probably doesn't matter to you since it looks like you are from Canada?). A few others have now tried Mushkin out as well and are liking their RAM sticks. G.Skill would also be a good choice though. RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226383 And be sure to get a quality power supply to run everything off of: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182073 Bluray drive if you need it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250 As a side thought, it will be interesting to see in 2 years from now where the gaming performance is. A lot of people hate on AMD processors for gaming (even though they are not really that much worse than Intel on average), but AMD has the contracts for all new game consoles. Normally no big deal, but the game consoles are moving to x86 processors and a bit more unified systems (or VERY unified in Microsofts case). Since games are all made for consoles now days and then ported to PC, the game coding will be highly optimized for the game console. Since that game console uses an AMD x86 processor, that *could* mean that AMD will have a large advantage in the "near" future when it comes to games and how things are optimized.
I tend to value quiet/cool/efficient parts and stick to the the higher midrange stuff instead of the top-of-the-line parts - you pay a lot more but don't get terribly much, it's diminishing returns. I may upgrade a bit more often but I don't really spend more, plus it keeps the tech I've got more current. "Future proofing" is a fool's game. The stuff available in the future is always better and cheaper than the best you get now. In that reguard: Intel for CPUs, now and into the foreseeable future (which is like, 1 year). They're way ahead in the manufacturing game at the moment. Haswell (the new stuff due in June) will have lots of efficiency enhancements, and maybe 10% more performance than Ivy Bridge, their current thing. Stick with an i5 because hyperthreading doesn't really bring anything to gaming. AMD will catch up performance-wise with their next round , but they burn lots more power and will probably keep doing so. I prefer Crucial or Samsung for RAM and those two + Intel for SSDs, they're the ones that actually make the chips that go into the modules. Seasonic for powersupplies (Reviewers are raving about the 660w platinum I just got, it's semi-fanless. pretty much silent! Don't fall into the trap of a high wattage PSU if you've just got a standard single-gpu system. Computer power consumption is falling and will keep doing so) I also lean toward nVidia because of the greater power efficiency and drivers. If I wanted to get a card today, regardless of budget, I'd probably get a GTX670. As far as motherboards. I've pretty much always been an Asus guy and that's never done me wrong. I think spending over $150 for a motherboard is silly unless you have a billion hard disks or are an overclocking enthusiast (rather than a gamer that just needs a mobo that works well). Getting the chipset in something built well is the important part. Fancy colored PCBs and pro-gamer endorsements are worthless. This: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322 That's just insane. You really going to plug in 4 graphics cards and 6 SSDs? LOL. SLI and crossfire are both pains in the ass.
Enigma makes some really valuable points on the shift to console gaming. This has been something I've had my eye on as well. Motherboards: I'm one of the gigabyte guys that Enigma mentioned. I love them. I push the living hell out of them doing gaming, and audio/video editing in a networked node arrangement. I went with them for their robust support of "hackintosh" systems. I stayed because they took the abuse like champs. I also have experience with the Asus sabertooth line and I do like them very much, as well... but I do hear about more DOA issues... could just be coincidence. Take that with a grain of salt. On the point of hardware. I cant agree more with the comment on SSD's and their benefits. Definitely include that. My favorite are the crucial m4's I haven't tried the samsung but have heard excellent things about them. I also second the opinion on Mushkin RAM. Outstanding value for money. The closed loop water coolers are also something I preach. Even if you dont intend to push your hardware. I have found my reliability has increased on all systems I run since moving to 100% liquid cooled with closed loops. I also have similar opinion on the nvidia solution vs AMD. I find the drivers just bitch less. It works for me and I s will stick with them until it doesnt. Other people parrot this except they preach AMD. So, I think its whatever is on sale, at this point. Last piece. DO NOT simp on the power supply. Shit power supplies are the death of more computers... And i am not talking about MOAR POWR Im talking quality in the build. Its easy to tell a good one from the rest. I defer to enigma with his experience of specifics in this particular area. I love building pcs more than just about anything... keep us in the loop, if you run into error... fill us in. chances are a few of us have experienced it and you can learn from our mistakes..
Mobo - Asus / i got sabertooth and very happy with it Video - Nvidia Ram - GSkill Case/PSU - Cooler Master Here is imho a very good PSU. its modular, gold cert and shiny =] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171057 SSD - Samsung HDD- Western Digital
Not 100% but like 90+. June 2 is the road-map date. Things can slip, but they aren't changing the process up so I doubt anything would really go wrong. A marketing delay to clear the old xxxBridge stuff?
...So couple questions; Is a rosewill PSU really that reliable? I cant say ive ever heard their name mentioned in connection to internal hardware before... mind you, my keyboard is rosewill, and it hasnt died on me yet (love mechanical boards), but are (high end) Corsair not typical? Or have they gone downhill recently? (or have i just been ignorant and lucky? o.o) As a further confirmation, im well aware that, *oldvoice* back in my day, 750w was plenty, is that really still true? i had assumed newer tech would be more power hungry.... and would i need to up that if i decided to SLI? finally, any reason not to get four of those ram cards instead of two? im... well, a pretty ridiculous multitasker, and even if i never use half of it.... eh, ill find a use for it! Oh, and a further question; how bad is Windows 8? When it came out i heard nothing good... now i hear mostly good... did people just take a while to get used to it, or was it so unspeakably bad that no one can even bring themselves to continue to hate it, and are now going about their lives, possessed of a sophistic denial of its very existence?
All companies have their good and bad models, That specific Rosewill power supply is very good. Corsair has never made their PSU's, and has more recently started sourcing much cheaper parts as has always been their business model. I havent actually looked into the matter for Rosewill, but I can say with 99% certainty that Rosewill does not make their own PSU's either. Rosewill does have its own large manufacturing facilities, but I still dont think the PSU design is from them at all. As a side note, I once had to contact Rosewill to get a price quote of 400,000 keyboards for a project I was doing. It would take them only 3 months to manufacture that many. 750w is still plenty for 1 GPU and any CPU along with a few hard drives and fans. If you want to SLI then you need to check the power draw of the cards you want and then see how big of a PSU you need. High end cards draw between 200-250w each, with an overclocked CPU you might draw 150w, then fans, drives, and chipsets. A PSU will lose 10-20% of its total power output capability in the first 2 years, and then much slower decline after that. So find out how much your max draw will be so you know what range to look in. You want to be running around 80% draw on the PSU for good efficiency with a bit of headroom for an extra drive or two later. If you will be drawing around 500w, then you probably want a 650w power supply as the minimum, and a 750w as the largest size you would look at. 650w -20% = 520w max after a couple years. That means a 500w draw a few years into the computers life will be at the top end of what the PSU is capable of. But just because the max draw of every part is 500w doesnt mean you will always be pulling that much power when the computer is in use, the majority of situations will not present a worst case scenario load on the system. Realistically if the max possible is 500w, you probably are drawing 350-400w in many situations, so a 650w PSU should still be fine for 4 or 5 years of life in a computer like that. But your computer might not be a 500w max system, it could be 400w or 700w. Find out "your number" and then let us know so we can recommend a great PSU for the size you need. I still hate Windows 8, and doubt I will ever like it outside of a tablet. But, I dont want to use it on a tablet either since I like Android (Although I willdefinitely be moving to ubuntu tablet for a while). Unused RAM is wasted RAM, but not enough RAM is pretty much the end of the world in computers. I have 16GB right now and use 10GB or so. I tend to use much more RAM than the average user too. But since the choices are 8GB or 16GB then the choice is obvious. Plus having a little bit extra is always good just in case. 32GB is fun to brag about, but unless you already know how you will use that RAM then there isnt much point. Personally I can tell you off the top of my head how I can use 72GB of RAM if I had it, but thats just me. Another guy here just got 32GB of RAM and he actually uses most of it with his rendering tasks.
I see! I have a additional question... and im not sure if this is a valid concern, or if im outdated.... but what are the odds that a water cooler will burst and pour water all over my computers innards?
Yes and no on power consumption: New tech is mostly less power hungry because when you get better at making transistors you lower your capacitance and your threshold voltages (plus the drive to mobile computing has demanded more efficient designs): You simply have less heat generated per processing power. Additionally they're much smarter about actively changing clockspeeds and active areas of the die. But at the same time you're not staying at the same number of transistors (and maybe going to higher clock speeds). That adds more power requirements. It's gone back and forth. So...Haswell will probably burn more energy when it's going full-bore than Ivy Bridge does. But it will also idle and throttle much more responsively. The concept is called "hurry up and go to sleep" get it done fast and then turn off. The TDP ("thermal design power") is 85w for haswell compared to 77w for Ivy (off the top of my head) My i5 3570k (77w), GTX570 (219w), sound card, 2 hdds, an SSD and the optical drive all got along fine on a 660w with power-heavy DDR3 1600 @ 1.65v. (I'm 1.35v sticks now). Unfortunately I don't have a way to measure consumption empirically right now. Adding the TDPs for the parts and some fudge factor doesn't even put me north of like 400w. I think dual 680s (195watts per...a good example for the previous as one of them uses less power than my old 570) would still fit in into that setup, but I'd probably bump it up to 750w. Just look at the TDP of the parts and give yourself a decent buffer. For the best in PSU quality, it's all about SeaSonic, IMO. Both Rosewill and Corsair and others have winners and losers. Both are getting their PSU's made by an OEM. The high-end lines for everyone are pretty much flavors of pretty darn good. I've got a rosewill mech. KB, I think it's great too. On ram: Unless you're doing something like editing large images or video or have millions of tabs open you're not very likely to use more than 8 currently. 16 far beyond typical gaming usage. You may have some specific application. I idle with music going and various stuff and don't go north of like 3gb. But you can save money this way too. Get 16 now at full price and then get 16 more later if you find you need it and that particular module is no longer that fancy stuff and is on sale. I just went to win 8 with the upgrade I did last week (It helps I get it cheap through the university). I like it better than 7. I sort of miss the start menu...but I think that's just because I'm not totally used to it. The desktop and taskbar are the same as before. You don't have to use a microsoft-linked portable account if you don't want. I hate to say it, but some things have been improved by "appiification" the netflix app is better than the web viewer because of the way it does hardware acceleration. There's lots of little stuff I like over win7. The task manager is better. File transfers are more informative. The ui is less flashy and less resource intensive. It boots really fast even before I got my SSD cache set up. As far as gaming performance impact, it's indistinguishable from Win7.
That OEM is more often than not SeaSonic SS is one of the most advanced PSU makers in the world and supplies the majority of the high end power supplies other companies sell as their own. Other big time names are Superflower (Kinda the SeaSonic of Asia) (Kingwin's top models use these designs), Delta, Forton, and Channel Well (Makes most of the modern Corsair units, especially the lower end models). Probably a couple others but those are the ones that jump out at me from memory.
That's pretty cool! I'm using the FX 8350 and it runs Planetside 2 like a champ. I'll be going with Steamroller when it comes out, I would love to see AMD get an edge on optimization in the future.
If you use a closed loop all in one cooler like Corsair's hydro series highly unlikely. If you do a custom loop then it's a matter of time, patience, and experience of setting one up.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, check for a Microcenter near you. Even with a budget of "quite high", Microcenter will save you ~$150 on intel CPU/motherboard combos: http://www.microcenter.com/product/388575/Core_i7_3770K_35GHz_LGA_1155_Processor Same price as the 3570k from newegg. With graphics cards and cases be sure to check Amazon as well.
Even if a microcenter is a bit of a drive, its still generally worth it because you can get your hands on the stuff you're looking at online. I hate taking a chance on a part on newegg only to find they had really good photographers and the part was actually cheezy shit
okay, how this look? (i did the math, and the power draw is just alittle under 500w, so ill stick with the 750 one from earlier) Case: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160 Mobo: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322 Graphics (x2): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130824 PSU: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182073 CPU: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 Cooler: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106189 SSD (x2): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193 HDD: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236343 RAM (x2): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226383 BD Drive: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250 plus Win7 Ult, some silver themal paste, and three screens. As a further question, im somewhat curious as to what XoO thinks of air flow, do you lot favour positive or negative air pressure for your fan set ups? I've always held to the efficiency of negative myself, but im somewhat curious if the anti-dust properties of positive pressure is really worth it....