Copy paste from my post in the aion eu section, Kazzier noted that i should post here. I checked a recent thread about PC building in this forum just now, but what he wants is abit overkill for my purposes. Well we're planning to build a new computer for Tready. Being on vent I've noticed we have a few members who seem to know a thing or two about building computers, so i thought I would ask those with recent experience in doing so. I have built 4 computers in the past, but that was years ago, and I am fairly certain im not up to date on what is good and whats not nowadays. Now I could research all this myself (and I am), but i find that charts filled with facts can be misleading (8gb ram looks good on paper, but if you run it with an xp os, not so much). So what i would like is for ppl who have recent experience and insight into the matter to reply to some of the following points. I am looking to build a PC that will last for atleast 5 years and will be able to run next-gen graphics and games (primary use of the computer will be gaming, both mmo and gfx intense single players). I dont mind having to upgrade components along the way to keep up, i just dont want to have to buy a completely new comp in 2-3 years time. While I realise we will have to splash out to get something decent, im hoping to do this as cost effectively as possible as well, so keep that in mind. Try to keep things realistic (32 gb ram is not quite what im after). We where thinking about buying a mobo bundle from novatech (Novatech Motherboard Bundle - Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB DDR3 1600Mhz - Intel X58 Motherboard) as a nice starting point to build from. Opinions? Said PC will be running Win 7, 32 bit (im not comfortable with 64bit, im sure its great, but i dont want to troubleshoot 50% of the things i try to run) Motherboard: (pci-e i guess, last time i built a pc agp was the thing) Brand? Anything is should know? RAM: What type? How much? How much does win7 basic edition support? How much ram does win 7 require to run itself + your standard background processes? GFX card: Any recomendations? We wont be doing any dual gfx card stuff, too complicated for me for now, and I would like to buy one good gfx card, not two semi great ones. Plus alot of programs dont support sli/whatever its called. I would also like not having to OC it. How much onboard memory should I be aiming for? Processor: Single/dual/quad -core? Pros and cons of one vs the other? Im happy with a dual core as i know all the programs we run work well with that atm, some mates have said that quad cores have narrow compatibility, anything to that? Storage: What type of hard drive should I be getting? Do read speeds affect things alot? Dont say solid state, we dont have that kind of money. Power supply: what level of juice will a rig like this need? Tower/fans: any recomendations on a tower model with good air flow/fan settup? I wont be attempting water cooling or any other fancy shit, fans will be it. Monitor: we wont be going for a secondary screen atm, however we're contemplating upgrading to a flat lcd screen from the old chunky one, if you know any good/cheap ones that are atleast 19, preferably 21 inch do tell. I probably come across as a complete noob with outdated terminology or whatever, so tell me if anything is unclear. All oppinions/feedback appreciated.
Lots of good questions, only thing is, there is no framework to answer most of them in. Namely, price range (yeah that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room). Given a price range, there are some really smart peeps here who can show you the components of a great box. But in attempt to answer with something, here is my take: MoBO: As the "heart" of the system, I would try to stay at the top end of the type of board I want. IN other words, there are good non-SLI/CF boards out there, buy the best you can get. Brands like ASUS, Evga, MSI are very good. ALways check the warranty on the particular model you are getting! Win7 32 vs 64: Ouch, not a high opinion of 64 bit?? hehhe, that's OK, it is a leftover bias from older WIN models that did have compatibility issues. YOu need to drop that bias tho. Personally, nowadays 64 bit is the way to go. It costs no more and allows for much more freedom with memory expansion. 64 bit works fine now, don't fear it. RAM: Hee is where your 64 bit pays off. 32 bit system can only support approx 3.5 GB RAM, a 64 bit system does not have that limitation. Personally, I would check into at least 4 GB RAM (full 4GB from 64 bit!!) and try to get 6GB min. Not that you need this much all the time, but you will find that it is nice to have the headroom. It really isn't that expensive to get a little more RAM and your system will thank you for it. GFX card: Here is where price issues come into play. Some very nice cards come in the 100-200 range. the GTX260 core 216 card is a pretty good value. For a little less you could go with the older 9800GTX+. Cards like the 4850 are also a nice bang for the buck. However, moving up to more recent families like the 280 series or 5700 series gives more performance that will be near top of the line for a while. Can't really make a recommendation here without knowing where you'd want to be price-wise. Processor: YOu want to buy the best you can get at your price range, no matter what core you end up with. AMD chips right now own the lowest cost options for speed, however they are built upon older cores that run hotter than Intel right now, and heat is your CPU's primary enemy. They also consume more power. Again, price range is key here. Storage: If you are not concerned with load times and OS boot times, traditional 7200 RPM drives with a 16 cache are fine. 10000RPM ans SSD drives give incredible performance, but you would typically need a second drive for data storage too. Price wise, 1TB drives are really good buys right now, look into that range perhaps. Power Supply: Without know where we are on GFX, MoBo, and CPU, would be hard to speculate on PSU. However, I can say we're looking at a mid range box, so I'd say you would want to be around 600-700watt. I would stick to the major brands, but avoid the way too pricey ones (PC Power and Cooling!) OCZ, Antec, Corsair, Thermaltake all make good supplies. Look for features like modular cabling, Active PFC, multiple 12v rails. Tower: So many great towers out there. First, make sure you like the look of the tower! For mid level price range ANTEC makes a few great gaming type boxes (I think it is the 1200 now). I've used Thermaltake boxes for 2 build and loved them. Things to look for are features like removable HD trays, screwless drive mountings, AIRFLOW DESIGN (caps on purpose, this is the most important thing), removable MoBo tray, cable routing system. Also, cheaper brands tend to do a lesser job on 'finishing' their products, so you will find a 50 dollar box has tons of metal burrs hanging off that cut you as you try to install. I avoid those boxes like the plague, what else are they skimping on?? Monitor: Samsung, LG, ASUS, Dell all good monitors. Get yourself the largest widescreen your budget and your vid card can afford! Sorry for the long and generally inconclusive answer, I can do better if I know what budget to look into. Good Luck!!!!
Something 7 brought up that I don't think you mentioned, are you looking to water cool, fan cool or a combo of the two? What's your desk/table top look like (a picture would be awesome)? I have been working on some new desk/table top layouts that you may like. How many USB devices or cabled devices are you planning on having on your desk? What are you wanting to do for audio? 2 channel / 2.1 channel / 5.1 / 7.1 or Headset? Are you just wanting to use this system purely for gaming or would you like to include other mediums of entertainment as well? (If you haven't seen Windows 7 Media Center you'd be amazed at what it can do now)
Thanks for all the replies (that was fast). Ok you have me convinced that 64 bit is the way to go (i want all my ram available pls) Sorry about the link, I have removed the bad link and posted the bundle info in the first post, copy pasting it here (Novatech Motherboard Bundle - Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB DDR3 1600Mhz - Intel X58 Motherboard) for your convenience. Price range: Hoping to do it for 1000-1500 GBP, thats 1500-2200 USD (doesnt have to include monitor purchase as i have one i can use to get by should the rest get pricey). About cooling methods: i mentioned in the first post that I am sticking with fans only. Desk layout: Im getting a new desktop to accompany the new PC (old one is run down and doesnt offer enough room) so picture is abit pointless untill i get it. Generally I only have my keyboard and mouse as wired/USB devices on the desktop, with the soundsystem sitting at the back edge and webcam ontop of the monitor. So the gist i got of it is go big on processor (im favouring intel atm) and mobo. And 6gb ram is a nice number to aim for (i was thinking 6-8 anyway). Im checking out the towers you mentioned (i think i'll go for antek 1200). When it comes to harddrive, im not too bothered about boot and load speeds, so i wont need anything fancy in that department. I would still like some more opinions on gfx cards, since i keep coming up with conflicting information/opinions in my research. If i missed anything that i should have responded to, let me know =) Btw this is much appreciated guys.
You could build the PC I built in this thread (link). Subtract 1 video card and the SSD hard drive and the price goes down to $2,065.00 USD. I wanted to get the SSD and 2nd video card because I went all out on that build. Basically newegg.com is a great site to see what current parts are good. Also what I like to do is look at big beefy gaming computers such as this (link) or this (link) and customize it and see what parts they are using. Then I model my PC off of similar parts. Off course the PC that I built on newegg.com is different because I went with an AMD proc and two nVidia video cards. Hope this helps your research!
thanks alot, will be checking out the newegg website and read your thread through for sure (slightly busy atm) and post what i come up with. Meanwhile im all ears (err... eyes, i guess).
Also, check out www.tomshardware.com They do quarterly reports on best bang for the buck in vid cards. Really good site. Also has charts to compare processors and card straight up. Oh, and they do budget build recommendations, just take a look at wht they would build on your budget and I bet you get a beast for the price!
Ok i've been checking the sites you guys have linked and done dome contemplating. Im going to use a Nvidia gfx card (this is mainly comfort factor, Im not an nvidia fanboy, im just used to their interface and software and have more positive experiences with previous nvidia cards I have owned vs other brands), all i need to figure out is what i can afford in relation to what everything else is going to cost. Im going Intell for processor(intel core i7 920) and mobo(intel x58) (leaning towards the bundle i spoke about, perhaps purchasing each part seperately if that is cheaper) and 6-8 gb ram (bundle comes with 6). The x58 has 3 channels for memory, I would like to know if this is subpar or good (im clueless about the concept). For hard drive im probably getting your everage 1tb drive (not decided on a specific one yet) Again I dont really care about boot/load time too much. The Antek 1200 will be my tower, i need to figure out how much power i will need before i can decide what powersupply I want. Initially I wont be utilizing multiple gfx cards, I can always purchase another if needed later. What I would like is some oppinions on what the best options for Nvidia cards with atleast 1gb onboard memory are. I am after something that can easily handle next gen gfx. Again its primary use will be playing graphically intense single player games and MMOs like Aion (and eventually TERA) that have nice graphics but also sometimes feature 400+ ppl on screen. If you have any criticisms or advice about my choices, pls share them =)
Well, if you're going with Nvidia and Intel, I would suggest going with: EVGA GPU & Asus/Gigabyte Mobo for basic gaming EVGA GPU & EVGA Mobo for overclocking HDD - You really can't go wrong with any of the big boys Western Digital / Seagate / Samsung, are three I've never had any issues with. Memory - Be absolutely sure to check your mobo's QVL (Qualified Vendor List) for memory before you pick any out, as a lot of boards won't function with generic / cheap RAM anymore. As for your case the only thing I can say is, when proprietary fans go out you're in for a world of headaches. Did you price out how much you're saving on your bundled package? If you're looking to get 3-5 years out of this I'd really advise against skimping now, if it has a shot of biting you in the ass in the future.
Restricting yourself to 1 GB and nVidia cards is the only way the 285 can possibly make sense... the 275 seems to run no worse than 5% slower on benchmarks and costs a third less ($250). Generally ATI's cards are doing better at the moment, at least until the GF 400 series shows up - but if you need to go with nVidia, there are much more cost-effective options than the 285 (even though I have one myself... but that was the middle of last year).
ATI graphic cards have better benchmarking results, but the drivers for them are not nearly as good at Nvidia card drivers. As said before, you should get an eVGA mobo and gfx card, they are a great gaming brand. if you can afford it, get a: GPU: GTX 295 card (~$500) -there are many editions of this, if you can't choose, just go with the co-op edition. -if you get this card, make sure to enable dual-core processing in the Nvidia Control pannel, my roommate's didn't have it enabled at first, and it took us a few hours to find out why it was running so slow. Motherboard: eVGA x58 (~$200). -there are also multiple editions of this, mainly the size If you are getting an i7 and you are on a budget, this is your best option: CPU: Intel i7 920 (~$300) -if you plan to overclock your cpu, you should look for a company selling the d0 stepping, as it is more efficient. -here is an article: c0 vs d0 stepping Other things to consider: Power Supply(PSU) (~$120) - a 750+ Watt should be plenty, unless you plan to overclock, but it should still be enough. Memory(RAM) (~$150) - just get 6GB of DDR3 1333, make sure your motherboard is compatible with the pin type of your ram. -and yeah, you will want a 64bit OS if you want to use more than 3.00 - 3.25GB of memory. Case: make sure you get a properly sized case to fit your motherboard with plenty of fans and pretty lights >.< Sound card: if you are into quality audio and got some extra cash, get an X-Fi XtremeGamer or any similar card. I'll leave mouse/keyboard and monitor up to you. If you are buying all of this and a mouse/keyboard/monitor/optical drive/hdd (~$650), it will put you at ~$2000. Hope this helps. I have two friends who have also built a machine nearly identical to this, and it's pretty sweet!
The ATI 5870 or w/e does beat the Nvidia 285 and even the 295 (barely and only in some tests). That and the fact that the ATI cards are cheaper generally would make them better except for the fact that Catalyst drivers still suck.
You have just released the floodgates, you have been warned! In all seriousness though, I've really wanted to hop over and try ATi again (I haven't in so long...) because the price / performance seems better for ATi, but again - I hear their drivers are bad. I don't know personally. I've been using nVidia for my past 3 cards. I'd like to know more about this driver issue.
It's called the 'rose colored glasses' syndrome. Everything looks better when you look at it colored with past experiences. Like the EVGA recommendation. They are certainly a great brand, but I have found ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, all jsut as easy to work with and jsut as capable. When it comes down to brass tacks, pick a major label product with the feature set you want, price you need, and a best warranty! One of the major advantages to building your own box is the warranty you will get for your components. Pre-made boxes typically come with a 1 year warranty, components come anywhere from 1 year to lifetime. that should definitely work into your value equation.
Well, so far I agree - I haven't had any problems with EVGA's stuff to date and I hear their customer service is good (but... that goes for anything you get off Newegg anyway) but the same applied to my previous hardware. I'm actually really lucky in that I haven't had any computer equipment fail in quite a long time, apart from keyboards and mice. (Well, come to think of it the front fan in my case doesn't really work well...) Last Radeon card was a 7500. Wasn't fast, but it worked, for quite a while...
My last ATi card was the x800 I got for a replacement for my 9800 (yeah, THAT series), been using nVidia since my 7900gt. I've been using the same keyboard and mouse for the past 8 years. Neither have failed yet :] Although, they aren't fancy - obviously.