Haha why, if I'm anything it's realistic, like I said worst thing that can happen they make one hell of a one time through game.
They are following what DDO did as a game structure? Might be the worst idea ever unless you like to fail.. I agree this is no MMO.. but then again the word MMO has been used like a 2 dollar hooker. Even heard it be used for GW.......
I've been following TOR fairly closely since it was announced, and nothing I have seen leads me to believe that we're going to see the mass-instancing so many recent "MMO"s are plagued with. Having a solid story to tell is what Bioware does well, I don't see why people are jumping to the conclusion that it means "everything" is instanced. One game that comes to mind that had some great story to it was LotRO, which did have some instancing, however the majority of the content was open world, with both solo and group parts to it. I can't recall a single "MMO" that has been completely instance free since WoW came along and "casual-ized" the genre. DAoC and Planetside (not a traditional MMO, but as an example) are probably the only ones I have played. There isn't enough info on either side for people to make assumptions based on the few video interviews and forum discussions. Bioware has yet to make a game I didn't enjoy, but this is their first step in to the MMO market, which is why I'm following it closely and sacrificing small furry animals to my demonic lord in hopes of a beta invite when the time comes.
But Yiz .. is it gonna be like current MMOs where there is a general playfield persay ? or are we gonna all be put in the same game but never be able to see each virtually, unless we group for the same instance ? its kinda ambiguous and not well worded ...
it's ambiguous because they're trying to showcase what they're bringing to the genre, and then saying "all the traditional MMO stuff is included" where they don't feel the need to go into detail. Here is a video that is a compilation of various interviews to help show what they've said:
Hehe, posted that same video on the previous page. If you ask me, that vid is proof that this will be the best MMO to date. ;x There I said it, I think im a TOR fanboi. More than anything I dont see Bioware lying, so ill hop on the train. Cant freakin wait for this game.
Ok so that video help explain some things ... but when for instance one of the devs is talking about exploration ... When I am exploring is it possible to run into other characters doing different quests or at different levels or stages in the game itself? or will you never see anyone running around unless u are in a group with them ? Thats the part that is a little ambigious .. thanks yizzy
Nothing in any video says that there will be non-instanced, large open world play areas. Which is what I consider to be the first and most important part of being called an MMO. And I'm not talking about just non-instanced lobbies like Guild Wars and Crimecraft. So yes, SWTOR will probably be the best game ever. Yes, Bioware is the best game company ever. But I'm sorry, just because the marketing department of a company trying to sell subs for their game calls it an "MMO", does not make it an "MMO". Show me some large non-instanced, non-lobby/hub open play areas where you see people not in your group running around fighting and doing things, and I will call it an MMORPG. Until then, I will call it simply an online RPG.
I dont understand, are we arguing whether this game will be a MMO or not? Lets face it, no matter how many counter arguments you might come up with to trump the fact that this game is going to be a MMO it won't change anything. MMORPG is a evolving term, what was a MMO 10 years ago may not be what an MMO is next year. The term is obviously used very casually. But really, when you look at the facts, TOR is a "MMO." It is going to have massive amounts of players online simultaneously. A lot of people think MMO is supposed to be more specific than that but lets get real. What are the MMO arguments really trying to prove here? Do you really think that games like TOR should start a new term to describe the genre? It's bad business imo, why make a new name when your game fits word for word already existing terms which at the same time have gamers recognition. Particular gamers ideas of what an MMO is, is only based on previous games and how they've structured their game. So to argue that a game like guild wars or TOR is not an MMO, you are really only basing your arguments on non-factual data. MMO's meaning is much broader than it was 10 years ago. Time to get past it.
Massively should mean a massive amount of people in any one virtual spot at the same time. Somewhere other than a lobby. Massively shouldn't mean a massive amount of people playing the game at the same time. It's just my opinion, and it will never get broader lol. Sorry Honestly, I just don't like game companies throwing the term around for every online game they make just so they can have an excuse for subscription fees.
Well, I see your point. Truth be told I wish all MMO's were open world as I tend to enjoy that atmosphere more. As to your second point, I HIGHLY doubt Bioware is calling this game an MMO just so they have an excuse to charge subscription fee's. The subscription fee is supposed to be in place to pay for the costs of these big servers as well as continually getting updates and patches to the game. Bioware is a well respected gaming company, I think they will be on top of having stable servers and giving us updates and patches. I don't see Bioware releasing a game and letting it sit to rot. If anything companies like NCsoft would be to blame for calling their games MMO's so they have an excuse to charge monthly fees. They release games and basically do a piss poor job at updating and fixing the games issues specifically. Coincidentally it's the companies like NCsoft that come out with the more traditional open world MMO's. Sad but true irony.
I understand what Blackwolf is saying, but I think the terminology is getting the better of the discussion. I don't think there is a doubt that this game will be 'massive'. I think BW99 is talking more about 'open-world' than about the scale (I am not trying to usurp your words, just trying to relate your argument to something other than the 'definition' of an MMO). I am worried about the game having an open-world element too. I think I agree in principal with BW99 that MMO being applied to a Guild Wars type game does not really do justice to the MMO genre (no slight on GW, I loved the game and thought it was very well done, jsut never thought of it as an MMO). I can only look at around 2 min 50 seconds in that video that has been posted here and take what the designers are inferring as the game having open world exploration and advancement. The story arcs, though, sound as if they will be totally instanced and this probably isn't a bad thing based on BioWare trying to infuse more storyline into the game. On a side note, one other aspect of MMO that the designers haven't given me a warm-fuzzy on is persistent world gameplay. MMOs need to have no 'conclusion', in other words, they are saying so much about their story; how can the story NOT end?? BioWare does a great job of reaching a climax (giggity) in their games, if that is done here then I basically have online multiplayer in an RPG once I have finished the storyline. Haven't seen anything yet that allays that uneasiness in my stomache.
But in reality, all massively multiplayer part is really indicative of is the persistent world that is the server you play on. The persistent world is the key component of the MMO. Population density inside of a given locale, while important to the economy and popularity of any given server and/or game, is not the criteria for usage of the term. If it was, then the Diablo 2 lobby would be an MMO chat server (although you do exclude it in your personal definition). From all that I can tell, the structure of the world will be much like WoW's. That is to mean that there will be an overworld, and the instances. Whether or not the planets are all instanced and there are spaceports and open space serving as the overworld, to my knowledge, has not been disclosed. However, because of Bioware's general tight lipped policy my notes are pretty much half developer commentary and half a combination of inferences that i have made, assumptions based on what it would take to make a particular dev comment work properly based on my personal projects (which if any other company is an indicator, does not mean that it WILL happen), and wild speculation of other people. So, will it be an MMO: yes. Now if only I could snag one of their design positions instead of them reposting it /angryfist